Ukraine - Dissecting Some War Propaganda News Items
Last night a Reuters headline claimed:
Mass grave of more than 440 bodies found in Izium, Ukraine -police
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Many media, who republish the Reuters feed, repeated that headline:
Kyiv: Ukrainian authorities have found a mass grave of more than 440 bodies in the eastern city of Izium that was recaptured from Russian forces, a regional police official said on Thursday, adding some of the people had been killed by shelling and air strikes.Serhiy Bolvinov, the chief police investigator for Kharkiv region, told Sky News that forensic investigations would be carried out on every body.
"I can say it is one of the largest burial sites in a big town in liberated (areas)... 440 bodies were buried in one place," Bolvinov said.
"Some died because of artillery fire ... some died because of air strikes," he said. Thousands of Russian troops fled Izium at the weekend.
Notice the wording. It is a 'large burial site' with '440 bodies in one place'. That does not have to mean a mass grave with 440 bodies but could also describe a graveyard with a total of 440 people buried there.
And indeed an AP video team visited the site and their video shows quite a different scenario (h/t Tore). In a wooded area there are a large numbers, maybe one hundred or two, of single graves with orthodox and other crosses. There is also one grave that has a cross which says that 17 soldiers were buried there.
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In the AP video several soldiers and investigators are moving around. One Ukrainian soldier says he saw a video that the Russians made when the soldiers were buried in that one mass grave. From it, he says, he estimates that more than 17, maybe 25 or 30, he says, were buried in that grave.
The video he refers to is likely this one (h/t Elena Evdokimova) which was published on May 8. It seems to show the same graveyard with that one mass grave. One sees civilians with red cross armlets collecting and burying bodies of dead soldiers. I count a total of 17 dead bodies but there may be one or two more. One Russia soldier is around and explains what is happening. The title in Russian translates to:
Ukraine refuses to take away the bodies of dead soldiers. Russian military bury them in mass graves
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There is also a link to a Russian news site called Giport or Hyport which says (machine translated):
Ukraine again refuses to take away the bodies of its dead soldiers, who have to be buried in mass graves. The Russian side several times offered the enemy to take the bodies for burial by organizing a corridor for medical workers, but did not receive a response from the Ukrainian command.Some time ago, the bodies of dead soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were collected by Russian soldiers on their own and transported to the morgue under mortar shelling from Ukraine. As a result, Ukraine did not take them from the morgue either. Today, Russian servicemen had to bury the dead soldiers in mass graves.
According to one of the soldiers involved in the burial, the bodies of the killed soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were taken from the front line a week ago. He said that negotiations with the current government of Ukraine were unsuccessful. The Ukrainian side simply refused to take the bodies, so the Russian Armed Forces buried the dead on their own in one of the city cemeteries.
If the current Ukrainian authorities took the bodies of their fighters, their relatives could say goodbye to them in a human way. And now they were buried in plastic bags in mass graves. But this is better than becoming food for the beast, as it would happen if it were not for the Russian military. At least the relatives will at least have a chance to find the dead by going through the procedure of taking DNA.
This is not the first such story. Back in March, we wrote that Ukraine refuses to make contact and take the bodies of dead servicemen from the territories of the LPR and DPR. As a result, all of them were also buried in mass graves. Some had nameplates, other soldiers remained unidentified.
The Reuters headline was 100% false. That may have been because the editor misinterpreted what the Ukrainian police investigator said. Or it intentionally exaggerated the case to increase the propaganda value of that news item. I suspect the latter to be the case.
There is otherwise nothing unusual with that graveyard. During a war people on both sides die. Civilians suffer as much as soldiers while fighting around them is going on. The city had been heavily defended by the Ukrainians and it took the Russian military the whole of March to take it. A lot of the buried casualties were likely killed by artillery fire. There is no way to tell from which side that fire had came.
That the graveyard is in the woods and not in some open place also makes sense. With camera drones around and being in reach of hostile artillery one would not want to be caught while shuffling graves in open fields. The trees give at least some protection from being seen from above.
A different obvious propaganda fake was published in today's Washington Post:
The letters left behind by demoralized Russian soldiers as they fled
The 10 handwritten letters, dated Aug. 30, were left behind in a two-story residential house where Russians were squatting and later found by Ukrainian soldiers who provided the letters to The Washington Post for review. They paint a portrait of dejected troops desperate for rest and concerned about their health and morale after months of fighting.
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The similar style in which the 10 letters were written suggests the troops, weary and disheartened, banded together to draft them. The letters caught the attention of Ukrainian soldiers when they first arrived in Izyum, which the Russians abandoned hastily in retreat, and some were shared on social media.The authenticity of the letters has not been confirmed by independent forensic experts ...
One can tell right away that the story makes little sense. The Russian security forces that were in Izium after the initial fighting were from the Rosguardia (Rosgvardiya), the National Guard of Russia which is more like a border police force with some additional tasks. There was little fighting in Izium after the end of March. The guards station there were regularly supplied. In that context they had no reason to feel like "dejected troops desperate for rest and concerned about their health and morale".
The Rosguardia were evacuated without losses by Russian military forces before the Ukrainians surrounded and recaptured the city.
That the ten letters were written in 'similar style' makes it likely that they were written by the same team of Ukrainian intelligence that uses the Washington Post and other media to spread their lies to the public. They intend to portray the Russian military as an exhausted and morally broken force. Neither seems to be the case.
While I wrote the above Reuters published a new piece that changes its earlier reporting but does not correct it:
Around 200 wooden crosses seen at site near Ukraine's Izium
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It in fact repeats the earlier false claims that the AP report had debunked:
IZIUM, Ukraine (Reuters) - Around 200 wooden crosses were found on Friday at a site near Izium in northeastern Ukraine, Reuters witnesses said, possibly marking a second mass grave in an area recaptured in recent days by Ukrainian forces.Men in white overalls have begun exhuming bodies at the site, located on the edge of a cemetry in the northwest of Izium, the witnesses said. Some 20 white body bags were visible.
Ukrainian authorities earlier reported the discovery of a mass grave containing around 440 bodies in the city of Izium, a frontline Russian stronghold until Ukraine's counter-offensive across the Kharkiv region during the past week.
It is not the 'fog of war' that clouds such new reporting. It is the propaganda that was ordered up to incite the 'western' population against Russia and its citizens and soldiers.
Without further backup and and proof one can not, and should not, believe any news item coming from the Ukrainian and other wars.
Posted by b on September 16, 2022 at 12:43 UTC | Permalink
next page »Yes, the big lie continues, no turning back. I can see that this morning. Thank you for the thread about it.
I think it is a big mistake for the Izzies to get too far into the anti-Russian camp. But perhaps they have no choice.
The only way to win modern wars is to fight them on somebody else's territory. E.g. the US' Civil War was fought mostly in the South. This has been what protected the USA up to now, those two oceans on either side.
Clearly, Ukraine is going to lose this war, whomever "wins" it. And clearly, Europe is screwed, how bad yet to be seen.
Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 16 2022 12:58 utc | 2
That's the MO of the media.
Blast out a scandalous headline for the sheeple to read then retract the lie later on page 74 in 8 point font.
Posted by: JoeDontSurf | Sep 16 2022 13:02 utc | 3
This is propaganda.
Amazon has a device called Echo and a digital spy/assistant called Alexa. One of the features you can set up is a "daily briefing". The state organ, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, produces a news package for it, so every morning you can be awakened with the latest propaganda disguised as news.
This mass grave crap was the first CBC story this morning.
The propaganda seems to be quite well synchronized and coordinated on the Western World.
Prior to this, it was TRUMP BAD, ORANGE MAN BAD, then COVID COVID COVID, and more recently, PUTIN BAD, RUSSIA BAD.
Posted by: PP | Sep 16 2022 13:04 utc | 4
Indeed propaganda.
I dont get it, ukrainian soldiers have been killed in the war: russians have buried them and apparently put wooden crosses on these sites so what is the big issue here? What am I missing?
Do western media believe dead russian soldiers are somehow buried by ukrainian side?
Posted by: Zanon | Sep 16 2022 13:05 utc | 5
https://www.voltairenet.org/article217363.html
Here you will find the explanation for Ukrainians routinely leaving the bodies of fallen soldiers in the field. Valkyries riding wolves descend from Valhalla to claim the bodies and transform them into Russian-killing monsters. It is 1920s fantasy fiction come to life. As always it is about killing Russians. The more dead Ukrainians lying in the field the more Russians will die.
This is taught to schoolchildren and has been since 1992. Everyone of fighting age absorbed this rubbish with their mother's milk.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 16 2022 13:05 utc | 6
Actually MSM now says there are 1000 bodies. Feels like an auction, which newspaper gives a bigger number
Posted by: rk | Sep 16 2022 13:06 utc | 7
I stated here some time ago that Reuters is the main purveyor of lies, all manner of fabrications and tailor made "news" in the world. Just want to repeat that claim that everyone can verify by doing a bit of research.
Posted by: JB | Sep 16 2022 13:08 utc | 8
It is truly evil how far the Western powers will go to demonise Russians, and to sanitise the despicable way the Kiev regime (and by extension, DC, Brussels and London) are willing to exploit the lives of Ukrainian men.
At least the Russians gave the poor souls a burial of sorts.
As a citizen of the West, my hope is that my so called leaders suffer a shattering defeat, and that Russia wins a decisive victory.
I disown Biden, Brussels and BoJo/Truss. I am ashamed of them. I have already advised young men in my family and their friends that these people are utter scum, and never to fight for them or to help them in any way.
Posted by: Scipio | Sep 16 2022 13:08 utc | 9
Speaking of fake war propaganda, let's not kid ourselves that it's only one side playing this silly game.
There was a recent alleged RAND report, outlining US strategy that used the Ukraine war and subsequent Energy Crisis to weaken Germany and plunder its industry.
Serious, actual journalists like Aaron Mate' called it a fake early on. RAND itself has since disowned it and published a short comment, calling it a fake:
https://www.rand.org/news/press/2022/09/14.html
That of course wouldn't stop not so serious and by no means journalists, like Andrei Martyanov, from quoting it in support of his personal war of hate against Europe... but we all know despite his expertise on military matters, when it comes to geopolitics he is a partisan hack with a massive hard on for mother Russia... and a major grudge against Western Europeans:
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/09/how-to-be-written-off.html
What i found more surprising, was seeing Martyano'v pal Larry Johnson also promoting the fake RAND report.
Not sure what kind of CIA analyst falls for a fake report, but let's say i'll be taking Larry's words with a thick grain of salt from now on too. The least he could do is publish some kind of redaction, unlike Martyanov, he based the entire post on the fake report:
https://sonar21.com/is-the-war-in-ukraine-part-of-a-u-s-strategy-to-weaken-germany-rand-says-yes/
Posted by: Et Tu | Sep 16 2022 13:09 utc | 10
I believe this (childish propaganda) is what is left for the collective West as the rest of the world moves past it. It's pathetic and somehow sad to observe. Sooner than later the zombified citizens of the West would wake up from their somnambulism and demand account from their leaders.
Posted by: Steve | Sep 16 2022 13:13 utc | 11
Statement by the DPR Head Denis Pushilin
Today, Ukrainian neo-Nazis almost simultaneously committed bloody vile crimes in Lugansk, Kherson and Berdyansk.
An extremely cynical terrorist attack took place in the fraternal Lugansk People's Republic. As a result, LPR Prosecutor General Sergey Gorenko and his deputy Ekaterina Steglenko were killed. An equally monstrous tragedy happened in Kherson: according to preliminary information, as a result of a strike on the city center, one person was killed, four more were injured, including two children. In addition, in Berdyansk, deputy mayor Oleg Boyko and his wife Lyudmila were treacherously killed.
I will add that the shelling of the cities of the Donetsk People's Republic continues. Over the past day hundreds of shells were fired from the Ukrainian side, three residents died, 12 were injured. And the shelling does not stop, the cannonade from the positions of Kiev is heard in any part of Donetsk.
I express my deepest condolences to the families and friends of the victims. I wish a speedy recovery to the wounded.
All these facts of war crimes are further evidence that Kiev is interested in the greatest possible terror and bloodshed, in the most monstrous tragedies, in the murder of civilians. In addition, in Ukraine they want us to be confused, scared, retreated. But this will never happen - it is high time for these non-humans to understand that for every crime they will definitely be punished. The despicable Kiev regime and its terrorists will have a bad end.
From telegram
Posted by: WJ | Sep 16 2022 13:14 utc | 12
Mass grave in a graveyard. Shocking news, especially at a time when we're all just about to bury our Queen of the West.I sincerely hope our queen's immediate family are shielded from this grotesqueness in their time, very long time, of mourning. God save our King.
Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 16 2022 13:18 utc | 14
The reporting of "mass graves" is standard procedure - propaganda 101 - always the fault of an evil dictator like Milosevic or Putin.
It was just a matter of time before they trotted out the mass graves psy-op.
Hopefully NATO is too afraid of Russia to go all in, but this kind of shite is what conditions an ever-more gullible public into supporting NATO troops.
There is too much trust in institutions which have lied consistently and repeatedly for 200 years. It is remarkable and stunning what the average Westerner will believe.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 16 2022 13:23 utc | 15
MSM news is like the two minutes of hate in Orwell's 1984. Today's hate is mass graves again.
State propagandists repeat lies until different lies are required. Nothing is ever corrected because they weren't mistakes. They were lies. Iraq threw babies out of incubators. Syria used poison gas on its own people. The white helmets were humanitarians. Iraq had WMD. Russia is shelling the nuclear plan it occupies.
All that can be done here is to counter these lies and the lies about lies from "fact checkers" so that more regular people disbelieve MSM. This degrades the propaganda networks, especially if people stop watching and listening.
As readership of propaganda organs declines, sources of alternative narratives (and factual sources) will be increasingly attacked by state actors. I suspect that is what is happening here.
I come here to find insights, but lately find the site attacks disappointing. There seems to be a lot concern like trolling, insults (not as bad as southfront.org) and off topic stuff. I suppose we can improve things by only posting comments only when there is something valuable to share related to the post and this might make it easier for the site moderator to implement counter measures.
Posted by: PP | Sep 16 2022 13:24 utc | 16
The BBC has been in full forelock-tugging grovel mode for the last week over whatsername, the rich old lady who died, but is now finding time for the usual anti-Russian propaganda as well. Apart from the 'mass graves' and soldiers' letters stories reported by b, there are also the ten or whatever (think of a number, as large as possible) 'torture chambers' 'discovered' in Izyum.
The same garbage is being given a good airing in France and (I see) NZ, on the stuff-and-nonsense website.
Posted by: B. Wildered | Sep 16 2022 13:25 utc | 17
oldhippie | Sep 16 2022 13:05 utc | 6
I think the Ukrainian side has a more rational reason for leaving their own soldiers' dead bodies behind and for refusing to collect them from the Russians. They want to keep the body count of their losses as low as possible.
Posted by: Brendan | Sep 16 2022 13:25 utc | 18
Valkyries riding wolves descend from Valhalla to claim the bodies and transform them into Russian-killing monsters. It is 1920s fantasy fiction come to life.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 16 2022 13:05 utc | 6
---
Peter and the Wolf was the answer to that.
Peter, a Young Soviet Pioneer, catches the wolf by his tail.Hunters, who have been tracking the wolf, come out of the forest with their guns readied. Peter gets them to help him take the wolf to a zoo in a victory parade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_and_the_Wolf#Plot
Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2022 13:26 utc | 19
A mass grave does not mean executions In the U.S. there was a 'mass grave' after every Civil War battle.
BTW I do not believe the tale about Bucha either. Ukraine got control of the territory so why didn't they have the U.N. investigate it?
Posted by: Christian Chuba | Sep 16 2022 13:27 utc | 20
Anyone who followed the War to Destroy Yugoslavia closely, recognizes the Empire of Lies is trying to use the same playbook.
1) Its not a civil war its an invasion
2) You support Mass Graves and Genocide if you don't want to go to war
Fortunately, this time around Independent Media is now trusted more than Regimist Media.
Posted by: Exile | Sep 16 2022 13:32 utc | 21
Posted by: wageslave | Sep 16 2022 8:02 utc | 324
One of the issues regarding the resolution of the 404 conflict concerns what wageslave describes as "apathy." How and why does the Western electorate tolerate government action inimical to their interests?
There are multiple hypotheses:
1) The Western population is lacking in intelligence and is incapable of understanding the future to which their "leaders" have committed. This may be due to declining standards of education, the lack of alternate views and public debate of the issues in the media.
2) Western populations have experienced an unprecedented period of economic expansion. This period of expansion may be dated to the immediate WWII post war period, to the changes consequent on the "Industrial Revolution" of the 1850s, or to the commencement of globalism with Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English, and French Imperialism. It is beyond the capability of conventional wisdom to imagine this streak of economic well-being drawing to a close.
3) Racism. The slavic, asian, turkic, and muslim peoples constitute a poor, incompetent, technologically backward population lacking understanding of global dynamics. They have never produced a Hollywood blockbuster in which they are presented as other than enemies and / or pathetic victims requiring Western aid and military assistance.
4) Operant Conditioning. The COVID crisis made it evident that any expression of alternate views, or alternate science, or even an informed critique of existent science, would not be tolerated and would result in censure, social sanction, job loss. Have a garden party and the neighbours will inform on you and the police arrive to investigate. We have entered 1984 exactly 38 years late.
5) Some combination of the above.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 15 2022 18:22 utc | 163 accurately describes the fact the present flood of propaganda will break apart on encountering the hard rock of reality. The consequent demand for change will likely result in a re-run of the 1848 "Springtime of the Peoples."
Posted by: Sushi | Sep 16 2022 13:33 utc | 22
b, maybe I’m missing the point, but in clicking “that” (repeated that headline), you led me to discover the Schnepfau, Austria to Sheboygan, Wisconsin ratline (I’m going to call it that.)
Wikipedia fills in the rest (basically) —
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Michael_Kohler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Vollrath
And the current mayor of Schnepfau is still a Moosbruger!! Thank God there is no monarchy in the USA like the completely insane British/Uk!! (And the Constitution was inspired by the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, by the way.)
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Sep 16 2022 13:33 utc | 23
Brendan @ 18
Those who abandon fallen comrades have long ceased being rational.
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 16 2022 13:34 utc | 24
No [Ukrainian] body = no widow/family compensation etc.
The top get to keep the money.
Not a major intelligence test.
From memory, this 'feature' was writen about way back in early 2022.
If the view from the heights is one of 'cattle' below, and the desired future includes depopulation and closure of the peasant lands for international industrial-scale agri-business, then what is the problem? (/sarc)
Posted by: imo | Sep 16 2022 13:42 utc | 25
Hello all, long time lurker here. And not to get too far off topic, but I saw the user Exile had posted:
"Anyone who followed the War to Destroy Yugoslavia closely, recognizes the Empire of Lies is trying to use the same playbook."
I have been interested in learning more about this as the stuff I read years ago was all, in hindsight, western-oriented. Any tips for books, authors, etc. would be much appreciated.
Posted by: LaxardalrNeil | Sep 16 2022 13:50 utc | 26
The recent coordinated provocations in Lugansk, Kherson and Berdyansk--involving two assassinations and the shelling of a city centre--which follow upon the much-vaunted but now essentially stalled "counter-offensive" and occur on the day after the US announces another 600 million arms package to Ukraine, are clearly intended to create internal political pressure on the Kremlin, forcing them to escalate.
The US, it seems, desires Russia to escalate; to move beyond the parameters of the SPO and to redesignate the operation as an ATO or, even better, to begin some level of mobilization. Russia understands this, I take it. This explains Russia's muted response after the "counter-offensive"; it explains their missile strikes against infrastructure (perhaps intended to serve the double purpose of cutting off the extended Ukraine troops as well as relieving internal political pressure on the Kremlin?); and their ultimate, though somewhat delayed, announcement that, for the present, no change in the designation of the SMO will occur.
Why does the US want Russia to escalate? Two reasons suggest themselves:
1. It will allow the US to portray their military support of Ukraine as having a real effect in the war: "Look, Russia is changing its operation because they know they can't win with their original strategy, because all our money and arms are helping!" This will in turn help motivate continued domestic support for Western arms packages at home.
2. They calculate that Russia can continue the SMO in the manner it is proceeding for a much longer duration, and at much lower economic and political cost, than the Ukraine (and US) is able to handle. They calculate that changing the designation of the war in Russia will attract more focus upon it, lead to a greater expenditure of economic resources, and possibly, eventually, to greater political opposition to it as regular Russian lives come to be more and more impacted by it. (I don't know whether this is true. But it strikes me as the kind of calculation US intelligence would make.)
I believe that Russia has calculated, in turn, that with its current troop levels and operational restrictions--modified here and there but without any big announcement--it has the capacity to defend against Ukrainian counter attack, and the capacity to continue slowly grinding down the Ukrainian infantry, conscriptions, mercenaries, and any and all new armaments they are provided by the US. Russia has calculated that proceeding according to a long, slow, burn, is the most effective military and political strategy for achieving its stated aims in Ukraine.
Now it is still not clear, and won't be totally clear until the operation has ended, whether Russia is correct in its calculations. But the fact that the US is trying, as much as possible, to FORCE Russia into an escalation before the winter is strong evidence to my mind that Russia is correct, that the US knows this, and hence that provocations will continue and will become, in fact, more outrageous, as September turns into October into November.
Posted by: WJ | Sep 16 2022 13:51 utc | 27
Andrei Martyanov is a fucktard who rehashes elsewhere information and sells it off as his professional own analyses to people too stupid and lazy to see through his bullshit. Hes been wrong on just about everything. You cannot question or challenge the circle jerking narratives on his so called blog 'the vineyard of the saker'...they wont publish comments that embarrass them. I suppose life sucks when one has a commisar pointing a gun at your head all day long.
Posted by: LM | Sep 16 2022 13:51 utc | 28
Steve @11. You are right this international propaganda extremely childish game is all the collective West has. On UK Column News they call it "A new international billion dollar game called "Zelensky Says". The fact that Adolf No. 2 (Ze) has had to resort to these extraordinary lies once again says it all.
As you rightly say, whilst the collective West is stuck in this quite frankly deep deep obsession with Ukraine and their deep, vitriolic vicious and malicious hatred of Russia and all things Russian (which is proving to be extremely corrosive for the collective West as they are well and truly entrenched in this obsession to the exclusion of all else including their citizens well-being and their respective countries) Russia, the SCO and Eurasia and other countries including Turkiye are meeting in Samarkand, doing mutual business. setting up mutual agreements, setting a vision and strategy for the future and generally moving forward with economic development objectives for the what Mike Pompeo called "The pan-Eurasian collosus".
The collective West on the other hand, haven't got a vision or a clue about how to resolve the backfiring of their own sanctions. They are so obsessed with Ukraine they are in denial about the War Crimes and Atrocities continually being committed by Ze's Government and the UAF and are actively supporting a Nazi regime in Ukraine with a President who is currently giving Adolf a good run, a very good run for his money in terms of extreme Nazi ideology and commission of human atrocities.
Hurrah for Orban and Vucic 2 sane voices in Europe. A massive pantomime BOOoooooo to Kazhakstan who has now completely sold out to the USA. Decency will prevail here. The evil is far too extreme for it to make rational decisions as a result of which, European countries are collapsing.
God Bless President Putin and Mother Russia.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Sep 16 2022 13:55 utc | 29
One can't win a war by psyops alone. As was seen in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan.....endless pages of western media printing drivel about Assad, his chemical weapons, the White Helmets, how the war was being won in Afghanistan, how the West was going God's work in Iraq. All lies from beginning to end....but made no difference to the outcome.
Posted by: Guy Thornton | Sep 16 2022 13:58 utc | 30
@WG
An interesting analysis, which is quite plausible. However it's also quite plausible that Russia doesn't change the terms of the SMO because it cannot.
Right now it looks indeed as if an equilibrium was achieved. Ukraine was able to accumulate a surplus of resources and reconquer some of the land, but now faces the same issue as Russia : to proceed further, another accumulation is necessary, and so on. And relatively speaking it costs Ukraine more to maintain a protracted war than Russia.
Russia seems solidly entrenched behind natural barriers in the north (Oskol) and in the south (Ingulets, now that the dams are mostly destroyed). the weak spots being the middle (Zaporozhie, Ugledar).
It's not insurmountable for the Ukraine and its sponsors, but they will probably need months to rebuild another strike force. And winter is coming.
Posted by: Micron | Sep 16 2022 14:00 utc | 31
Prior to this, it was TRUMP BAD, ORANGE MAN BAD, then COVID COVID COVID, and more recently, PUTIN BAD, RUSSIA BAD.
Posted by: PP | Sep 16 2022 13:04 utc | 4
TRUMP BAD is still alive and well.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Sep 16 2022 14:01 utc | 32
Propaganda works by commission and by omission. The omissions from the MSM which I notice are - not related to each other : 1. no reporting of the 90 minutes call from Scholz to Putin and 2. no reporting of rapes by Russian soldiers of Ukrainian women. Both omissions are hard for me to understand, why? The commissions (lies) are too many to count.
Posted by: fanto | Sep 16 2022 14:18 utc | 34
A report with the same headline was reported in Polish online media today along with others talking about another "Bucha". However in the body of the article it clearly states that the graves were marked with names or each had a number on it. For me this is not a definition of a "mass grave" with many unidentified corpses. By the way vitually all Polish media either copy the Western headlines or come up with completely ridiculous headlines and publish interviews and analysys by "experts" and retired generals that seem to live in some make-believe world. It is totally insane. Having observed many PR war campaigns over the years starting with Yugoslavia, through Iraq I and II, Libya, Syria etc. this one is unbelievable and to me indicates that the collective West treats it as if current events are an existential threat that must fought and reversed at all costs. This as well may be the case looking at the larger picture.
Thank you MOA for keeping it up for us. The task must be daunting and exhausting but many, many people rely on you. All the best from Poland.
Posted by: wlodek | Sep 16 2022 14:21 utc | 35
Preaching to the converted here... as with the rest of the many Psyops since 2001, we will not make a dent in the western consciousness and opinions via these blogs.
I am frequently told I read too much "Putin Propaganda", they are oblivious to the fact that their government is worse.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Sep 16 2022 14:26 utc | 36
Its more than likely that this is being spun as propaganda by the Ukrainian and Western media, we know they have form on this by the Bucha, and Kramatorsk events. I even listened to a guest on a UK radio station who said in a serious manner that the Russians were trying to blow up the ZNPP and kill themselves in the process, to blame it on the Ukrainian forces.
This is how it will unfold every time Nato and Ukrainian forces win back, come by, any land previously held by Russian forces, videos will be made of some sort of atrocity, and the Western media will give it plenty of airtime.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2022 14:27 utc | 37
The agendas of the Greens and the Neocons are working against one another.
Greens want deindustrialization. Neocons want to expand the military industrial complex.
These two agendas oppose each other.
This is evident in the Ukrainian War. The Greens forced the EU to reduce its own fossil energy development, making it dependent on Russia. The Neocons want to destabilize the Russian economy by sanctions. The result is that the EU will become even further deindustrialized, while simultaneously, the Neocons want to supply Ukraine with maximum weapons and ammunition. It appears that the Neocons are losing overall.
Posted by: Кomrade Retslag | Sep 16 2022 14:28 utc | 38
The quality of Reuters reporting has taken a nosedive since February. Maybe it was always this bad.
Posted by: fnord | Sep 16 2022 14:28 utc | 39
The editors are the most carefully selected, and therefore the biggest propagandists. It is not coincidence that headlines, written by editors, are often misleading and much more biased than the story beneath them. This is a golden rule for AP- if a story has no byline, and is therefore an editor mashup, it is always peak disinformation.
Decades of cultivating the Imperial Press has paid off in spades.
Posted by: LaxardalrNeil | Sep 16 2022 13:50 utc | 26
"Any tips for books, authors, etc"
"A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order" by F. William Engdahl
I found it compelling.
"This Book is a Gripping Account of the Murky World of the Anglo-American Oil Industry and its Hidden Role in World Politics.William Engdahl takes the reader through the history of how seven giant oil companies - five American and two British - developed a controlling grip on the world's economy unprecedented in history. This is no ordinary history of oil. It is a history of global politics, more precisely of global geopolitics - how control of strategic geographical pivot regions first British and later American interests to control in large part the world economy.The book sheds light for the first time on such events as the 1973 oil shock - a sudden 400% rise in the price of the world's most essential commodity in a matter of weeks. What William Engdahl reveals, with flawless documentation, will shock most people."
Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Sep 16 2022 14:36 utc | 41
There are good lines written sixty years ago :
"The empty debate on the spectacle - that is, on the activities of the world's owners - is thus organised by the spectacle itself: everything is said about the extensive means at its disposal, to ensure that nothing is said about their extensive deployment.
Rather than talk of the spectacle, people often prefer to use the term 'media'. And by this they mean to describe a mere instrument, a kind of public service which with impartial 'professionalism' would facilitate the new wealth of mass communication through mass media - a form of communication which has at last attained a unilateral purity, whereby decisions already taken are presented for passive admiration.
For what is communicated are orders; and with perfect harmony, those who give them are also those who tell us what they think of them.
...
Never before has censorship been so perfect. Never before have those who are still led to believe, in a few countries, that they remain free citizens, been less entitled to make their opinions heard, wherever it is a matter of choices affecting their real lives.
Never before has it been possible to lie to them so brazenly. The spectator is simply supposed to know nothing, and deserve nothing. Those who are always watching to see what happens next will never act: such must be the spectator's condition."
-- Guy Debord, Comments on the Society of the Spectacle
Best regards from France
Posted by: Fabrice Etanchaud | Sep 16 2022 14:37 utc | 42
It's interesting to compare different wording from different newspapers.
WaPo, CNN, Al Jazeera, Axios, WSJ, the Hill, all got it right.
The Economist, who I usually like, jumped the gun on this one. Same with Reuters.
I don't think you can really compare western media to Russia's insane screaming, but it's good to point out mistakes, especially when there's bias like this.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Sep 16 2022 14:39 utc | 43
Et Tu | Sep 16 2022 13:09 utc | 10
The snag about the Rand report is, that the US and its German and European vassals act in line with its script. The report may be fake insofar as the attribution to the author's affiliation is false. However, the content is true. This distinguishes it from propaganda pieces by the Evil Empire. There, usually the authors are authentic yet the contents are full of lies. If there is propaganda, guess which version I prefer.
Posted by: OttoE | Sep 16 2022 14:43 utc | 44
The inkompentence of chassmaster Putin is really breathtaking.
Every of Putins moves and decesions plays somehow into the hand of enemies.
One could gain the impression that Putin is an ally of UkroUSA destroying Russia slowly
Posted by: Chessmaster | Sep 16 2022 14:46 utc | 45
fnord (39).
Chrystia Freeland was at one time a major international editor for Reuters. Reuters is full of ex-CIA and FBi employees.
"Reuters also runs a private intelligence service, with commercial ties to governments and national intelligence services. The president of the company,Timothy P. Murphy, was previously the FBI's Deputy Director and worked for the Bureau from 1988 until 2011, and the board is full of deep state operators. The Thomson Reuters Special Services (TRSS) provides "research and actionable insights for national security missions." Many of the people TRSS employs comes "from academia, law enforcement, and defense and intelligence agencies"... "the same organizations as the clients we serve".[6] After the Integrity Initiative (II) was exposed, one of the members, Maria de Goeij, moved over to TRSS. Some of the TRSS commercial services points to similar work as the II, (witch hunts and psychological operations) with the claim to be able to "uncover foreign influence in sensitive and vulnerable environments" in support of "action-based missions",[7] presumably giving governments plausible deniability for dirty operations."
Reuters is a global news agency. Previously British, it is now owned by the Canadian company Thomson-Reuters. Together with two other agencies, Agence France-Presse and Associated Press. The Canadian link alone would see Reuters reporting in a bias fashion against Russia.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2022 14:46 utc | 46
Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 16 2022 13:18 utc | 14
"I sincerely hope our queen's immediate family are shielded from this grotesqueness in their time, very long time, of mourning. God save our King."
Unfortunately Eoin that is not the case. I was watching the sombre funeral march transporting the Queen's coffin from the Palace to Westminster Hall, and the BBC World News banner at the bottom of the screen kept repeating a claim that Russia had spent some hundreds of millions of dollars (I forget how much, I was watching the procession). Gross (as my daughter used to say when she was younger).
Posted by: Ross | Sep 16 2022 14:48 utc | 47
Some independent information regarding the War to Destroy Yugoslavia ?
A good start might be Peter Handke's book 'Journey to the Rivers'
https://pdfcoffee.com/handke-peter-journey-to-the-rivers-a-viking-1997-pdf-free.html
A independent journalist (Jared Israel) who during the beginnings of the internet wrote extensively on the topic - collection of his articles
http://emperors-clothes.com/yugo.htm
You can also roam around the website to find lots of newer articles on the War to Destroy Yugoslavia
for example - http://tenc.net/clerical.htm
Posted by: Exile | Sep 16 2022 14:49 utc | 48
Hundreds of millions of dollars influencing other countries.
Posted by: Ross | Sep 16 2022 14:51 utc | 49
Posted by: Chessmaster | Sep 16 2022 14:46 utc | 45
Maybe you should be running Russia’s war - effort then, right? All to a glorious victory of Russia and all reasonable citizens of the world.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Sep 16 2022 14:53 utc | 50
Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Sep 16 2022 13:18 utc | 14
I really hope you're being sarcastic.
Posted by: v | Sep 16 2022 14:54 utc | 51
The problem you have is this. There is a graveyard with over 400 bodies. A lot of them will be casualties of this conflict, be it civilian or military. These casualties would not have occurred if Russia had not initiated the SMO into Ukraine.
The conclusion for the vast majority of people in the West, is that the responsibility for these casualties is Russia.
The End.
Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 16 2022 14:55 utc | 52
The conclusion for the vast majority of people in the West
Tom UK | Sep 16 2022 14:55 utc | 52
---
As if this opinion matters.
But that it doesn't is the point.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2022 15:00 utc | 53
Fabrice Etanchaud | Sep 16 2022 14:37 utc | 42
This exactly right
Debord also explained why the société de spectacle was so inefficient and designed to be so - take a bow vdL
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 16 2022 15:02 utc | 54
Posted by: Кomrade Retslag | Sep 16 2022 14:28 utc | 38
Not at all. It all fits. The Neocons are Straussians and they are thus US -Israel Firsters , and their plan is to destroy the EU and Germany if it comes close to competing with the US in industry and in military/cultural/political sphere.
The German Greens are their Trojan Horse. Stupid and ideologically wishing deindustrialisation . The Neocons don’t care as it means that more industry and the brainiest of the Germans will then have to relocate to the US, thus boosting Neocon’s home.
The only thing the present German Greens have held onto is their Green agenda and their party name. They are wiling dogs of war for the Americans and push all the imperialist US aims.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Sep 16 2022 15:02 utc | 55
I just asked a colleague who speaks russian what that cross with the 17 dead says. It does not say they are UK soldiers. Does not mean this propaganda is not legit prop, but still....
Posted by: Esteban | Sep 16 2022 15:03 utc | 56
Thanks so much for the links, Exile. Best wishes to you. And thank you too, Tony.
Posted by: LaxardalrNeil | Sep 16 2022 15:03 utc | 57
SOC Newsflash
Meanwhile - in the world of the real
President Putin welcomes
"We fully support the decision to start the procedure for admitting Belarus to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization that has yet to be approved by the Council of SCO Heads of State," the Russian leader said. Moscow has always been in favor of granting its strategic partner and closest ally Minsk full-fledged SCO membership, Putin emphasized.
"This would certainly help improve opportunities for integration in politics, the economy, security and in the humanitarian sphere," the Russian leader said.
Putin also welcomed the decision to grant the status of SCO dialogue partners to Egypt, Qatar and Saudi Arabia and to launch the procedure for granting the same status to Bahrain, Kuwait, the Maldives and the UAE.
"The circle of those wishing to cooperate in one capacity or another with the Shanghai [Cooperation] Organization is far from being limited to these countries, and all applications from other states and international associations to join the work of the SCO deserve the most careful attention and benevolent consideration," the Russian president noted.
https://tass.com/politics/1508619
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 16 2022 15:03 utc | 58
What i found more surprising, was seeing Martyano'v pal Larry Johnson also promoting the fake RAND report. - Et Tu | Sep 16 2022 13:09 utc | 10
The snag about the Rand report is, that the US and its German and European vassals act in line with its script. The report may be fake insofar as the attribution to the author's affiliation is false. However, the content is true. - Posted by: OttoE | Sep 16 2022 14:43 utc | 44That’s what Larry Johnson appears to be saying as of this morning:
“NOTE–This may not be a genuine RAND report. Take it with a grain of salt. Regardless of its veracity, the sanctions on Russian are having a devastating effect on the German economy.”
https://sonar21.com/is-the-war-in-ukraine-part-of-a-u-s-strategy-to-weaken-germany-rand-says-yes/
Posted by: DocHollywood | Sep 16 2022 15:10 utc | 59
"Those who abandon fallen comrades have long ceased being rational."
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 16 2022 13:34 utc | 24
Psychopathic behaviour is very rational.
Posted by: Brendan | Sep 16 2022 15:10 utc | 60
Reminds me of this Old Swiss Joke: Helicopter crashed on Cemetary in Zurich. So far 600 Dead recovered.....
Posted by: NoOne | Sep 16 2022 15:13 utc | 61
They are building up lies, as they did for the Germans with the Holocaust
Posted by: Fayez Chergui | Sep 16 2022 15:13 utc | 62
Posted by: DocHollywood | Sep 16 2022 15:10 utc | 59
The RAND report is not genuine. It has been debunked several times. However, it is true that its contents offer a plausible explanation of the long play against German industry.
This thesis has been set forth most ably by Michael Hudson in several places. Here are a couple links:
https://michael-hudson.com/2022/02/america-defeats-germany-for-the-third-time-in-a-century/
I would not be surprised if the author of the "RAND" report were in fact simply adopting Hudson's analysis as his/her own.
Posted by: WJ | Sep 16 2022 15:13 utc | 63
Posted by: Tom UK | Sep 16 2022 14:55 utc | 52
casualties would not have occurred if Russia had not initiated the SMO into Ukraine.
Wrong. The casualties would never had occurred had the US State department not instigated the Maidan coup.
The conclusion for the vast majority of people in the West, is that the responsibility for these casualties is Russia.
The vast majority of people in the West are irrelevant, their thoughts even more so. Even their rulers think and act as much.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 16 2022 15:16 utc | 64
Posted by: LaxardalrNeil | Sep 16 2022 13:50 utc | 26
You can start by reading The Srebrenica Massacre: Evidence, Context, Politics, a book edited by Edward S. Herman (co-wrote Manufacturing Consent with Chomsky) with many contributions revising the mainstream narrative that Srebrenica was a genocidal massacre. There's a free pdf which you can read. Also the Norwegian documentary Srebrenica A Town Betrayed gives a much more balanced view what really happened at that time.
Posted by: v | Sep 16 2022 15:24 utc | 65
... But the fact that the US is trying, as much as possible, to FORCE Russia into an escalation before the winter is strong evidence to my mind that Russia is correct, that the US knows this, and hence that provocations will continue and will become, in fact, more outrageous, as September turns into October into November.
Posted by: WJ | Sep 16 2022 13:51 utc | 27
A very coherent socioeconomic hypothesis as to why NAZO is trying so very (desperately?) hard to provoke RF into a higher intensity conflict. So much for all the NAZO Axis countries barking and gloating about wanting a Long War to grind RF down ... BS.
Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 16 2022 15:25 utc | 66
wlodek | Sep 16 2022 14:21 utc | 35
Good information from Poland. Thanks for that. Greetings from Germany.
Indeed, the wealth/income elites of the West sense that an existential threat does exist for their world dominance. The name of the threat is multipolarity, not Russia. The current events are just symptoms of the transition phase. In the greater picture, the card house of extractive financial capitalism (yes, Germany vs. Poland including) and concentration of wealth in the hands of increasingly few individuals has indicated signs of doom for a long time already. Along with the threat to the privileges of the neocon parasites, the more severe threat of nuclear annihilation of humankind has taken a leap with the events in Ukraine. This REAL existential threat for PEOPLE is NOT NEARLY treated adequately by the collective West.
Posted by: OttoE | Sep 16 2022 15:26 utc | 67
". It is the propaganda that was ordered up to incite the 'western' population against Russia and its citizens and soldiers"
The "western population" is so completely dumbed down and zombified, they do anything their leaders tell them to anyway. So why the propaganda ? The reason is the leaders need the illusion that "their people" are still able to do anything, because after all it's their work and labor they feed off. But that's an illusion. The "leaders" and their people are locked up in a "Totentanz", a death dance. They lean on each other like two drunkards who would fall down otherwise. FedEx, the biggest logistics company in the world has just called a global recession. In a few weeks, noone will care about some conflict in some eastern-european shithole country any more.
Posted by: Franz Beckenbauer | Sep 16 2022 15:27 utc | 68
An update on several successful strikes against Ukrainian forces by the RF.
"Russian troops destroyed the headquarters and training base of a separate Ukrainian special operations center "South" near Ochakov, Says in the summary of the Ministry of Defense on the progress of the special operation for September 16.
In addition, the Russian Aerospace Forces inflicted high-precision strikes on the points of deployment of the 28th motorized infantry brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of Nikolaev.
In the Kharkiv region, it was possible to hit the positions of the Ukrainian 66th Mechanized Brigade near Dvurechna and Kupyansk, as well as the Kraken national battalion in Kharkiv."
https://ria.ru/20220916/ukraina-1817228698.html
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2022 15:28 utc | 70
@ WJ | Sep 16 2022 15:13 utc | 63 Thank you for the links
Posted by: DocHollywood | Sep 16 2022 15:29 utc | 71
Ukrainian nazi terrorist state doing what it does best today. I can't wait for winter...
Posted by: Pobeda | Sep 16 2022 15:29 utc | 72
thanks b...
i see cbc news giving us the same bullshit this morning - "Ukrainian authorities began unearthing bodies Friday from a mass burial site in a forest recaptured from Russian forces, including some they said bore signs of torture." associated press... i won't link to it...
the wire services are at the top of the propaganda multiplier food chain... great article on this here -
https://swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/
@ WJ | Sep 16 2022 13:51 utc | 27
i agree with your conclusions at the end.. thanks..
@ Jo Dominich | Sep 16 2022 13:55 utc | 29
thanks for saying all that...
Posted by: james | Sep 16 2022 15:32 utc | 73
Posted by: Exile | Sep 16 2022 14:49 utc | 48
Great link. I know rather a lot about Yugoslavia and Serbia, for very old personal reasons. Basically all of Europe had been at Peace since I was born, apart from relatively minor troubles eg Northern Ireland.
I extracted from your link: "The KLA (or KPC or NLA) appears to be just the kind of terrorist outfit that has finally driven Washington to stand up and take action against Evil.
Right?
Wrong.
"AMERICAN intelligence agents have admitted they helped to train the Kosovo Liberation Army before Nato's bombing of Yugoslavia"
About 15 years ago, 25 years after I had split up with my Serbian Ex, I discovered how completely evil and horrible, Terrorists, supported by the USA, NATO, including The UK and Israel really were.
I knew it was true, because the first report I read, was later confirmed by an Offical EU Report.
Basically, young healthy teenagers in Serbia (nothing to do with the war) were captured by the KLA, and taken to be operated on near an international airport, and had their essential body parts removed, heart, kidneys etc, to be flown out fresh for rich Western old people, who for example had been drinking too much alcohol and wanted a new body part.
THAT is how EVIL, the Human Race is, except it is now even worse by mass genocide, jab, war, starvation, and freezing to death
Almost everyone is too brainwashed to RESIST
Tony
Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Sep 16 2022 15:33 utc | 74
@Posted by: Franz Beckenbauer | Sep 16 2022 15:27 utc | 68
Agree that fundamentally, Westerners don't care much about Putin's little pillage and rape of a couple miserable coal towns.
This whole war is based on defending Kiev, really, and now that Kiev is safe, it seems bound to fizzle out eventually.
Otoh, the west is rich, so, they may just not care that much either. It's not like Europe's going to literally freeze to death. They'll just pay some more money for heat.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Sep 16 2022 15:34 utc | 75
@ Franz Beckenbauer | Sep 16 2022 15:27 utc | 68
It's frightening enough watching USA cities descend into chaos, even before the global recession you're predicting.
Posted by: dfg | Sep 16 2022 15:37 utc | 76
Pop goes the USEU Oil Price Cap
In matters of war this kind of advance and alliance is crucial
« « As to why OPEC+ seems to have raised its desired floor price, one of Reuters Saudi sources indicated that materials costs have risen with inflation and that crude producers need more revenue to make up for higher production costs.
"An oil price at $120-130 is risky and Saudi will prevent that, but at $100 it won't have a huge impact on the global economy - Saudi would be comfortable with that price," one of the anonymous sources said.
As for Russia, which has had to offer its oil at discounts for months, it wants to see oil at no less than $100 per barrel, two Reuters sources familiar with Russian thinking said.
With both Saudi Arabia and Russia backing the $100 oil horse, it could only be a matter of time before OPEC+ agrees to actively defend this price level by cutting production. » »
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Saudi-Arabia-And-Russia-Both-Want-100-Oil.html
Posted by: Gerrard White | Sep 16 2022 15:38 utc | 77
This is interesting, just how can Ukraine be restored; it certainly can't be restored in an amicable way as the Donbas republics in my opinion would never go back after what has happened. The only other alternative I see is restoration by force, and to do so would require the defeat of Russia.
"The ministers for European affairs of Germany, France and Poland called for a review of the policy towards Russia, Says in a joint statement issued by the German Foreign Ministry.
Conflict on Ukraine was a fundamental turning point, ministers said.
"We need to redefine the key guiding principles of the European Union's policy towards Russia," they stressed.
In addition, the document notes that Germany, France and Poland are in favor of a strategic approach with the participation of international partners to solving the problem of restoring Ukraine."
https://ria.ru/20220916/politika-1817309104.html
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2022 15:40 utc | 78
LaxardalrNeil at |26
Another good source for what happened during the destruction of Yugoslavia and the war against Serbia is Diana Johnstone. She has an article in Consortium News within the last two weeks that gives a summary of her views. She published a number of excellent articles at the time of those wars and has published a book.
Posted by: Toivos | Sep 16 2022 15:42 utc | 79
@ ThrowsOfWar | Sep 16 2022 15:34 utc | 75
ever heard of the minsk agreements, or where you born before 2014?? jesus..
Posted by: james | Sep 16 2022 15:43 utc | 80
@ThrowsOfWar | Sep 16 2022 15:34 utc | 75
---
You grossly misunderestimate the severity of the situation.
ArcelorMittal expects its Europe steel production to fall 1.5 mln T in Q4PARIS, Sept 15 (Reuters) - ArcelorMittal (MT.LU) expects its steel production in Europe to fall by around 1.5 million tonnes in the fourth quarter compared with the year-earlier period as it idles capacity due to weakening demand and soaring energy prices, the company said.
The world's largest steelmaker earlier this month said it would curb output in Germany, Poland and Spain, notably by halting one blast furnace in each country.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 16 2022 15:45 utc | 81
This is all over western media - with pictures of graves with crosses. Who would massacre first and separate later?
Graham Phillips found an eerie sight on the way to Artemovsk
Posted by: Anne B | Sep 16 2022 15:46 utc | 82
Posted by: Et Tu | Sep 16 2022 13:09 utc | 10
The story of an alleged US plan to drain EU resources to prop up its economy was reported on Tuesday by Nya Dagbladet, a Swedish news outlet, which describes itself as anti-globalist, humanist, pro-freedom, and independent. An English-language version was released later in the week.
The newspaper claimed that it obtained a classified document signed by the RAND Corporation, titled ‘Weakening Germany, strengthening the US’. The paper, which was allegedly produced in January, outlined a scenario for how the US could help its struggling economy by draining resources from its European allies.
The purported plot involved goading Russia into attacking Ukraine, which would force the EU to impose sanctions on Russia and decouple their economies from Russian energy.
Germany faces wave of bankruptcies, MP warns
Read more Germany faces wave of bankruptcies, MP warns
The resulting damage to EU member states, particularly Germany, would undermine the EU’s political power and potential for pursuing policies independent from the US – and it would trigger an outflow of capital and skilled labor from Europe to the US, according to the plan as described by Nya Dagbladet.
The RAND Corporation responded to the publication on Wednesday. A short statement said that “a supposedly leaked RAND report about a bizarre U.S. conspiracy to ‘weaken Germany’ is fake.” It urged readers to sample its research on Ukraine and misinformation.
The think tank has been one of the most influential players in the realm of US foreign and military policy for decades. Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, who in 1971 leaked to the media classified documents detailing the scope of US involvement in the Vietnam War, gained access to the papers because he was working for the RAND Corporation as a strategic analyst.
RT (9/16/22).
Et tu, are you sure that you are not a RAND troll? Why such a strong defense of RAND's denial. In fact, this subject came up even before the release of the report on Tuesday, and it makes a lot of sense. Germany was an industrial powerhouse; the US doesn't like powerhouses.
Posted by: Guernica | Sep 16 2022 15:46 utc | 83
Posted by: Brother Ma | Sep 16 2022 15:02 utc | 55
Bingo, what you said (German Greens & Neocons).
Posted by: anon2020 | Sep 16 2022 15:50 utc | 84
US starting 2 wars in Russian neighborhood only to spite Russia. These are psychopaths. It is amazing how people in the west think this scum can do as they please.
Posted by: Pobeda | Sep 16 2022 15:50 utc | 85
On Yugoslavia:
"To Kill A Nation"
Michael Parenti
It is of note that War Harpy Hillary Clinton demands full credit for influencing Bill to bmob Belgrade. This bit is from a Clinton biography.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Sep 16 2022 15:50 utc | 86
Here we go again... Bucha 2.0.
And yes, facts will not stop mainstream media and the worthless, shiftless hacks on twitter from pushing ridiculous narratives. They never did. They never will.
Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Sep 16 2022 15:51 utc | 87
Thank you v & Toivos for further reading. You are certainly a helpful bunch here at MoA, and the courteous example of our host is clear to see in the commentators.
Hello to Republicofscotland too; I recognise you from the Wings over Scotland blog! Still a whole lot of nothing going on in our small corner of the world, eh?
Posted by: LaxardalrNeil | Sep 16 2022 15:54 utc | 88
An actual picture of the graveyard was published by Andrei Ermak, Ukraine regime spokesman. It shows clear individual graves with individual grave markers, some just just a number and others with personal details. I guess the numbered ones had no personal identification with them. Assuming the individuals are Ukrainian dead, it looks like considered burial of many individuals. The Ukraine regime is renowned for not collecting its dead.
"Izyum. Another crime of Russian terrorists, for which several generations of an isolated Empire will be responsible."
There is a follow-up
"Izyum. Another crime scene of Russian terrorists. The responsibility will be as strict as possible. We'll find each of you."
Posted by: Arfur Mo | Sep 16 2022 15:58 utc | 89
Russian forces would be mad to withdraw from the ZNPP, if the largest nuclear energy plant in Europe fell into the hands of the Ukrainian forces, we'd have a nuclear disaster for sure that would, depending on the prevailing winds be catastrophic, to Europe and elsewhere, and of course it would be blamed on Russia.
"The International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-nation Board of Governors has passed a resolution calling on Russia to withdraw from the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, Reuters reported on Thursday, citing diplomatic sources.
According to the news agency, the resolution was passed with 26 votes in favor. Russia and China voted against the document and seven countries abstained from voting."
https://tass.com/world/1508165
And to add fuel to the fire.
"Dozens of assault groups and Ukrainian saboteurs keep trying to penetrate the liberated areas of the Zaporozhye Region every day but with no success so far, Chairman of the We Stand With Russia movement Vladimir Rogov told TASS.
"They keep coming in small groups and [our forces] hammer them with firepower. In fact, their actions are hard to understand: they push ahead thinking that no one can see them. But they can certainly be seen and they are being sprayed with gunfire. The Zelensky regime is facing huge losses there and no one is even keeping count. There are dozens of assault teams, sabotage and reconnaissance groups everywhere, in wooded areas and in the fields, which have either been eliminated or suffered great losses. They keep trying to penetrate the region but they are being smoked out. Military intelligence and artillery units are doing a good job."
https://tass.com/world/1508599
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2022 16:00 utc | 90
Since SCO leaders are involved in talk shows about future things (which might never happen), I was thinking there will be more action in Ukr today, a message for natoids. But no, same piss. However, Ukr was busy with multiple successful terrorist activities and Bucha 2 in a single day.
Interesting that both events were actually provided to nato by Russian generals, not by some great Ukr strategy.
Belgorod keeps being attacked but no one seems upset or try to prevent it. Nazis in Kiev are safe and travel everywhere around the country. France, Poland and Germany want to start some sort of Ukr army outside Ukr. Something is fake in this movie.
Posted by: rk | Sep 16 2022 16:01 utc | 91
@Posted by: james | Sep 16 2022 15:43 utc | 80
Yes, exactly. The Minsk Agreements are in line with how the west reacts to Putin taking a Russian speaking couple coal towns. Which is to say: diplomatically, and with minimum sacrifice.
This massive war and the accompanying sanctions are a response to Putin invading greater Ukraine, destroying cities, attempting to besiege Kiev. If Putin had simply grabbed up Donbas, there would be no massive western intervention.
Therefore: if Putin yields on attacking the rest of Ukraine, then Western intervention will eventually fizzle.
Posted by: ThrowsOfWar | Sep 16 2022 16:11 utc | 92
Posted by: Et Tu
What a cunning combination of rat and ape!
Posted by: Jimmy Flies By | Sep 16 2022 16:17 utc | 93
Diana Johnstone's book is "Fools' Crusade: Yugoslavia, Nato, and Western Delusions". It is very good.
On the subject of Reuters it is interesting to note that John Helmer today writes about the IAEA deciding to come out in favour of Ukraine. Helmer tried to get questions asked by the Director's Press spokesman. Here is Dances with Bears (Grossi is the IAEA Director):
"...Grossi was asked this morning through his spokesman, Fredrik Dahl, to say what voting rules were adopted for the resolution. Dahl (right) is an Austrian with a long career as a Reuters correspondent working on the NATO side during the war against Serbia and the US and Israeli campaigns against Iran. Dahl refused to answer the telephone or email questions.
"Grossi’s press office was also asked to report the roll call on the resolution vote, identifying the countries voting for the resolution, and those voting against or abstaining. Dahl and his associates refused to reply. The IAEA website is not disclosing the vote..."
Links with both Reuters, NATO and the war against Yugoslavia.
Posted by: bevin | Sep 16 2022 16:18 utc | 94
On Septmber 10, the Ukrainians were stating they they would creat another Bucha.
" It already started... Ukrainian freaks do not hide that they will organize "Bucha 2.0" in the occupied territories. And again they will pass it off as "victims of the aggressor". The Nazis have already begun to create and spread provocative information following the example of "Bucha"."
FWIW: A purported letter from someone involved in the forensic analytsis of the original Bucha incident:
“In April of this year, I was included in an international expert group as a forensic specialist. She was supposed to work in the Ukrainian city of Bucha, in the vicinity of Kyiv. Since the end of February, heavy fighting has been going on in this settlement between Ukrainian and Russian troops.
I worked at the execution sites of civilians - a terrible tragedy that shocked us all. Then no one doubted that these crimes were committed by the Russians. Even now, many believe that Russian soldiers were responsible. However, in the course of our investigation, I discovered that the intelligence of one of the NATO countries received video recordings of the incidents in Bucha.
These videos fully expose the Ukrainian military as responsible for killing civilians and confirm that the Ukrainian military made fake video evidence to frame the Russian side. They depict extrajudicial executions of civilians. Servicemen in Ukrainian camouflage uniforms shot unarmed local residents to death, and then laid out the bodies on the ground. These videos are now classified. The authorities seem reluctant to make them public.
Indeed, while it may hurt our Ukrainian allies, I personally find it impossible to participate in the fabrication of fakes and provocations. I urge you to do your best to spread this information. Journalists should investigate this issue and tell people the truth. Please refer formal inquiries to the relevant governments and the UN. Don't let them cover Kyiv. Unfortunately, I cannot give my name and cannot act openly for security reasons.”
Posted by: Arfur Mo | Sep 16 2022 16:18 utc | 95
Fellow Barflies: Never forget, as it seems some posts do, that this is not a war between Russia and the Ukraine. It is a war of the West, led by the U.S., against Russia,and the other multi-polaristas.
Posted by: donten | Sep 16 2022 16:19 utc | 96
No Russian gas will flow down the Nordstream II pipeline, the gas will instead flow through a new pipeline that will be built to deliver gas to China. Russian gas exports to the European Union "will drop by around 50 billion cubic meters" in 2022. On September 2, the Russian gas giant Gazprom indefinitely suspended natural gas flows to Europe via Nord Stream 1 pipeline.
Pakistan and Russia will now collaborate on many matters including building a long-delayed gas pipeline to Pakistan. As the saying goes Europe has cut-off its own nose to spite its face, when it comes to Russian energy, and all for the benefit of the USA.
"The prime minister reaffirmed Pakistan's commitment to work closely with Russia to further expand and strengthen cooperation between the two countries across all areas of mutual benefit including food security, trade & investment, energy, defense and security," a statement from Sharif's office said.
The two sides agreed to convene the next meeting of the Inter-Governmental Commission (IGC) in Islamabad at an early date, the statement added.
The long-delayed gas pipeline vital to the south Asian country's economy — the Pakistan Stream gas project, also known as the North-South gas pipeline — is to be constructed in collaboration with Russian companies.
The two countries agreed in 2015 to build a 1,100 km-long pipeline to deliver imported liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Karachi on the Arabian Sea coast to power plants in the northeastern province of Punjab.
The pipeline's designed annual capacity stands at 12.4 billion cubic meters, with the possibility to be increased to 16 bcm.
The project, due to be launched in 2020, was delayed after Russia had to replace the initial participant, which was hit by Western sanctions."
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2022 16:21 utc | 97
My local CP24 news in south west Ontario, Canada, reported that "Ukrainian officials say", blatantly just acting as Ukrainian propaganda spreaders. The comments on youtube are pretty much 100% calling them out on this, nice to see.
Posted by: Anne B | Sep 16 2022 15:46 utc | 82
Thanks Graham Phillips and Anne B for posting that.
The World needs to know the evil truth.
Strangely enough, my wife and I did not throw up in India, and we knew exactly what the pigs were eating there. Fresh human shit.
Oh dear, I do not feel well.
Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Sep 16 2022 16:37 utc | 99
Posted by: LM | Sep 16 2022 13:51 utc | 28
Wow! What a contribution!
FYI the Saker blog has nothing to do with Martyanov.
Posted by: RB | Sep 16 2022 16:38 utc | 100
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More psyop on EU/USA/Can/NZ/AU populations.
Posted by: Johnny lar | Sep 16 2022 12:48 utc | 1